Notes from 2009

UNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER - a series of CTB discussion evenings

8 pm on Sunday evenings at Brentwood Baptist Church, Kings Road

7^th June Week 1. Christian Initiation and Church Membership Session Leader: Rev. Peter Thomas

14^th June Week 2. Ministry and Mission Session Leader: Rev. David Matthews

21^st June Week 3. Church, Authority and Decision-Making Session Leader: Rev. Ian Jorysz

28^th June Week 4. Eucharistic Communion Session Leader: Rev. Chris Goldsmith

HERE ARE THE PARTICIPANTS' NOTES FROM THESE DISCUSSIONS

Understanding Each Other – A series of CTB Discussion Evenings

AIMS: for members of different churches to discuss what they believe together
and so to build friendships with members of other churches.

7^th June – Christian Initiation and Church Membership

What do you understand by BAPTISM? Who might be baptised? What does CHURCH MEMBERSHIP mean to you? How does a person become a church member? Is CONFIRMATION part of your practice?

Rev. Peter Thomas, Brentwood Baptist Church (Session Leader)

Believer's Baptism (normally but not necessarily by immersion) is initiation into the Christian life and into the universal church of a believer who has personally professed saving faith in Jesus Christ. A Believer (whether baptised as a believer or not) is accepted into the membership of the local church by decision of the other members who recognise their saving faith. Infants are welcomed into the church by an act of Thanksgiving (for the birth) and Dedication (of the parents to bring the child up to know Christ for himself or herself). Baptists have no equivalent of Confirmation, only Believer's Baptism.

Rev. Ian Jorysz, St. Peter's South Weald

Incorporation into the Body of Christ is conferred by baptism. Young children are baptised on the basis of the faith of the church community and that of their godparents, who take responsibility for nurturing their godchild’s faith. Confirmation (the laying on of hands by a Bishop) is expected when older. Traditionally this is also when Holy Communion is first received, although churches are now free to admit children to communion earlier. Anyone baptised resident in a parish has a right to membership of the parish church; everyone has the right to baptism, marriage or a funeral in their parish church.

Rev. Chris Goldsmith, Christ Church Warley

Anglican practice is to baptise all those who publicly assent to Christian faith. For those too young to speak for themselves the expressed faith of their parents is deemed to cover them and enable them also to be baptised into the covenant community. When they are able to express their own faith, a service of confirmation marks their informed assent to the promises previously made on their behalf. Through baptism we become members of the universal Christian church. Affiliation with a particular local Anglican church is expressed by joining the electoral role of that church. This is open to those who are baptised, at least 16 and are resident in the parish, or regularly attend.

Rt. Rev. Mgr Bill Nix, Dean of Brentwood Cathedral

In the Catholic Church there are three sacraments of initiation. Adults seeking membership of the Church spend about nine months in instruction and preparation. At the Easter Vigil they make their profession of faith and are baptised. Following baptism the Sacrament of Confirmation is celebrated in which they receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and finally in union with the community they receive the Eucharist for the first time.

For children the sacraments of initiation are spread over time. Parents request the Sacrament of Baptism for their child, making a profession of faith on their own behalf and on behalf of their child, promising to bring their child up in the practise of the faith. At about 8 years old, after instruction, the child receives the Eucharist for the first time. At 14+ the young person, again after a period of instruction and preparation is confirmed by the Bishop and so becomes a full member of the Church.

KEY QUESTIONS: What do Christians all agree about? Where do our differences lie? Where do our differences come from e.g from Scripture, tradition, culture or spiritual experiences? Which differences actually matter?

Understanding Each Other – A series of CTB Discussion Evenings

AIMS: for members of different churches to discuss what they believe together
and so to build friendships with members of other churches.

14^th June – Ministry and Mission

What is the role and nature of PRIESTS or MINISTERS? Is there a distinction between CLERGY and LAITY in your denomination and if so what is the difference? What does your denomination understand by the word "MISSION"?

Rev. David Matthews, New Harvest Community Church (Session Leader)

I was once asked what I thought of women ‘priests’. Somewhat tongue in cheek, I replied, God has already answered that question; “(He) has made us kings and priests to His God and Father..” (Revelation1:6). King and Priest were among the highest callings under the old covenant. Under the new covenant all believers share these graces. The ‘laity’ have been abolished and we are all ‘ordained’ for ministry and mission. Our mission is to bring the good news of the Gospel to all people in all places by all means. To that end every believer is equipped by the Holy Spirit.

Fr. Matthew Bemand, St. Thomas’s Church

The Church of England has three orders of ministry, Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Only Priests and Bishops may celebrate the Eucharist, and only Bishops may confirm or ordain. Many in the C of E (but not all) hold that ordination is a sacrament which changes something at the deepest level of a persons being and can never be undone. All the people of God however share in Christ’s priesthood through baptism. The ordained priest shares in that priesthood in a particular way, making Christ present to the people above all in the eucharist. Mission is a task of the whole body of Christ. The C of E is in a privileged position as the established church to reach out to people, especially in times of need, and each parish serves all who live within it, not just members of its congregation.

Rev. Ellie Goldsmith, St Paul’s Bentley

The church’s mission is to try to bring all of “human life ….. under the sway of God’s rule”, reflecting God - the “fountain of sending love”. So the church seeks to discern what God is doing in the world and join in. This involves the re-integration of all of creation - the personal, the communal and the cosmic, and has an eschatological dimension. Ministry is serving the mission of God. Every baptised Christian is called and gifted by God for various ministries. Some are called to the ordained ministry (deacons, priests and bishops); their role is public, representative and enabling of the work of others. Lay and ordained constitute the priesthood of all believers.

Rev. Peter Thomas, Brentwood Baptist Church

Baptists do not see a distinction between clergy and laity. Any member of a Baptist Church can e.g. preach, baptise, preside at communion in their church. Accredited Ministers have a “trans-local” ministry as pastor-teachers. The shared task of Ministers, Elders and Deacons is to ^“to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up” (Ephesians 4:12). Jesus commissions all Christians to play their part in the mission of the church, “Go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them .... and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)

Understanding Each Other – A series of CTB Discussion Evenings

AIMS: for members of different churches to discuss what they believe together
and so to build friendships with members of other churches.

21^st June – Church, Authority and Decision-Making

What does the word CHURCH used to mean in your tradition? Where does AUTHORITY lie within your denomination? Where does the balance lie between the local congregation and other individuals or bodies? Do you have e.g. bishops, moderators, etc?

Rev. Ian Jorysz, St. Peter's South Weald (Session Leader)

The ‘local church’ is understood to be a Diocese, i.e. those parishes under the oversight of one Bishop (although, in practice, there may also be Suffragan or Area Bishops to assist). Priests exercise their ministry by delegation from their Bishop. The Church is said to be led by Bishops and governed by synods, each synod consisting of elected lay and ordained members. There are synods at national, diocesan, deanery (smaller clusters of parishes) and parish levels. At parish level, the Parochial Church Council is charged with co-operating with the priest “to promote the whole mission and ministry of the church”.

Rev. Peter Thomas, Brentwood Baptist Church

Each local Baptist church is a congregation independent of all others. It is governed in all matters of faith and practice by the “Church Meeting” when the members gather together under God to discuss and make decisions. The (ordained) Minister and (lay) Elders and Deacons lead the church but have no authority over it. Brentwood Baptist Church and Pilgrims Hatch Baptist Church relate to others for encouragement and mission through the Eastern Baptist Association and the Baptist Union of Great Britain, but the Association and Union have no control or authority over the local churches. There is no equivalent of bishops or moderators.

Rev. David Matthews, New Harvest Community Church

A church is not a building it is people. You and I are the church. The church can and does meet in buildings but we must always ‘own’ the building rather than the building ‘owning’ us.

Authority in the church is always given from ‘within’ never imposed from ‘outside’. Such authority must be seen to have a servant heart. It is always ‘collegiate’. “Peter stood with the eleven” in Acts 2.

The local church is free to interact with outside bodies and groupings as and when it wishes to do so. These are a source of inspiration and balance to the decision making that belongs in and with the local church. The ideal exercise of authority is “it seemed good to us and the Holy Spirit” (Acts 15:28)

Authority, Scripture, Tradition and Reason – why we need each other

“All Christians agree that the ultimate authority in the Church is Holy Scripture, the inspired and reliable record of God’s mighty acts of salvation and words of revelation and the inspired theological interpretation of these by the earliest believers. In understanding the Scriptures, some Christians give greater weight to the history of interpretation by their tradition, whereas others give greater weight to reason or to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the present generation. The greatest threat the Church faces today is the post-modern ‘consumer Christianity’ which replaces the authority of Scripture and of tradition with each individual’s eclectic spirituality, fragmenting the one Body of Christ.”

Understanding Each Other – A series of CTB Discussion Evenings

AIMS: for members of different churches to discuss what they believe together
and so to build friendships with members of other churches.

June 28^th – Eucharistic Communion

What significance do you attach to receiving BREAD and WINE? Do you use the names Mass, Eucharist, Communion, Lord's Supper, Lord's Table, Breaking of Bread? What do these imply?

Rev. Chris Goldsmith, Christ Church Warley (Session Leader)

As a command of Jesus, celebrating Holy Communion has a high priority and significance in Anglican churches. Presiding at communion is reserved to those who have been especially ordained for that role and sharing in communion is usually reserved to those who have made an adult profession of faith. We continue to puzzle over the precise meaning of Christ’s words “this is my body…this is my blood”. Opinions range widely, but it would rarely be seen as ‘just’ a visual aid to remembrance of his self-offering. Most Anglicans would believe that Christ is present with his people in a special way when we receive the bread and wine.

Rev. Wes Hampton, Brentwood Methodist Church

In Holy Communion, or the Lord's Supper, the Church responds to Christ's command, “Do this in remembrance of me” (1 Corinthians 11:24-25). Thus the Church celebrates the presence of Christ in its midst, recalls his sacrifice and, in the power of the Holy Spirit, is united with him as the Body of Christ. The bread and wine serve as tokens of his dying love, food for our earthly pilgrimage, and a foretaste of the heavenly banquet. We are empowered for mission: apostles, sent out in the power of the Spirit, to live and work to God's praise and glory.

Fr. Matthew Bemand, St. Thomas’s Church

We believe Christ to be truly present in the bread and wine that have been consecrated, which become his body and blood. We tend to use the names Mass and Eucharist most, although, some use Holy Communion. Mass emphasises the missionary aspect of being sent out into the world; Eucharist emphasises the aspect of thanksgiving. We use the language of sacrifice because we believe the Eucharist unites us in a profound and mysterious way both to the last supper and to Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross. The priest acts in the person of Christ to offer this once-and-for-all sacrifice to the Father together with the gathered people who make up the body of Christ in that place.

Rt. Rev. Mgr Bill Nix, Dean of Brentwood Cathedral

In the Roman Catholic Church we use the word Mass when we gather to worship. The Mass (from the Latin mittere which means “being sent”) is made up of two principal parts.

1. The Liturgy of the Word, in which the Word of God is proclaimed, with readings from the Old and the new Testament, followed by the homily, in which the Word of God is broken open or explained. In this first part of the Mass the community feeds on the living Word of God.

2. The Liturgy of the Eucharist. Bread and wine are brought to the altar. In the Eucharistic prayer we believe that the bread and wine is changed and becomes the Body and the Blood of Christ. In communion we are fed on the Body and Blood of Christ, we share the life of Christ. The Mass ends with the ancient dismissal: in Christ you are one, go out and live that reality in your daily life.

Understanding Each Other – A series of CTB Discussion Evenings

SMALL GROUP LEADER’S QUESTIONS

THESE WERE PROVIDED FOR THE SMALL GROUP LEADERS TO HELP PROMOTE DISCUSSION

Each session looks at a different topic. It is introduced by the questions and the responses given by the different church leaders as printed on the Participants' Notes above. Those questions are listed below, together with other questions and Bible readings offered as discussion starters. You may be happy to follow the order of questions suggested, but do please feel to use these materials in any way you like to encourage worthwhile discussion on your table. You may also wish to read and refer to the suggested Bible passages (and others). Each evening the Session Leader will introduce the subject in a way designed to stimulate discussion and you may well wish to pick up on their remarks. Regrettably I haven't the faintest clue what they are going to say! But if you have any questions please do feel free to ask me: peter@pbthomas.com

June 7^th – Christian Initiation and Church Membership
Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 2:38-41; 1 Corinthians 12:12-13

Invite those around the table to share what THEIR baptism, confirmation or church membership means TO THEM. Be sure to affirm their experiences and do not allow critical remarks.
Try to draw out what “baptism” means and signifies in the different denominations. Is “infant baptism plus confirmation” equivalent to “believer’s baptism plus membership”?
Is baptism essential for salvation?
“A Christian without a church is like a tuba player without a band.” DiscussJ

June 14^th – Ministry and Mission
Ephesians 4:11-13; 1 Timothy 3:1-3; John 20:21-23

1. Ministers have been described as “six days invisible, the seventh day incomprehensible”. Invite those sitting at your table to describe ways in which their priests / ministers / pastors have been a blessing to them over the years. (Discourage them from airing any complaints about their clergy!)

2. Are there any activities in ministry which only “ordained” people may perform?

3. The Apostle Paul says, ^“Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work.” (1 Thessalonians 5:12-13) To what extend do words like “respect”, “over you in the Lord”, “admonish”, “highest regard” accurately reflect the relationship between clergy (and/or lay leaders) and everybody else in your churches?

4. “The church exists by mission as a fire exists by burning.” (Emil Brunner) What does that mean? Do we agree? How do the congregations represented at your table see their mission in the world? What should be the balance between evangelism and social action?

June 21^st – Church, Authority and Decision-Making
Ephesians 2:19-22; Acts 13:1-3; Acts 15:28; Hebrews 13:17.

1. Ask around the table, “Who is REALLY in charge in your church?” (Is it really only a myth that the greatest power in any church lies with the ladies of the Catering Committee?)

2. Are bishops a good thing? Discuss J

3. “The single greatest barrier to church unity and cooperation is not doctrine or practices, but the mechanics of different forms of church government and decision-making.” Do folk around the table agree?

June 28^th – Eucharistic Communion
John 6: 51-57; Matthew 26:26-29; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26.

1. Ask those in your group what name their church gives to the breaking of bread and sharing of the cup. What does that name signify to them?

2. Invite those in your discussion group to explain what receiving the bread and wine mean to them personally.

3. The Lord Jesus Christ said, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:53-34 NIV) Is participating in the Eucharist / Communion / The Lord’s Supper essential for salvation?